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How to Land a Job You Love ? – Charlie Hoehn

♪ [music] ♪ – [David]: Hello I'm David Laroche, we are with a new guest today, we are with Charlie Hoehn, hello. – [Charlie]: Hi David, how is it going? – Fine. – Thanks for having me. – And thanks you very much today to answer my questions, to help youth to unleash their own potential. – My pleasure. – Do you have some advises to find your way. – Yeah a little bit so I think everybody kind of starts off in that position where they feel like they have to be something. They're always working towards something, they grow up in school they spend 12 to [inaudible 00:58:00] to the school [inaudible 00:01:03] told like yes you're working toward something bigger. You're becoming a better version of yourself and then you get out of school and it's like what do I do now? What am I supposed to become? And you get all these ideas in your head of I need to become a successful person, or I need you to go back to graduate school so I can get more degrees. I must do these things. The reality is [inaudible 00:01:35] every one of us has a number of activities that we naturally find fun and interesting and make us come alive. And I'm sure you have some stuff that you've done in the past that was like play for you. It was just really fun, you just naturally kind of found yourself immersed in it. And I've used this example in the past for me I have a lot of fun when I'm making video sketches. And editing film I think it's a blast and so that's like a form of play for me, and I've been able to turn that into work sometimes. And that's been fun for me. Finding your way it's a result of you paying attention to the things that you find yourself doing, that you get lost in and find yourself immersed in play. And you're like oh this is really fun I'm going to keep doing this stuff. – Yes okay. – And you keep getting better and better at it, and over time as you keep doing it you get really good at it and other people who value that kind of work that you do want to work with you. I would say to the people who want to find their way take the pressure off yourself, you don't have to find anything right now. It's just a matter of paying attention to the things that you really enjoy doing and then keep doing them and let them take you where they take you. – So to sum up what you're saying you have to pay attention to what are your passions and try to work on it to transform it into a job. – Yeah like to me, I do my best to avoid work and I try to pursue things that are naturally just fun and playful. And sometimes I do a really good job at that other times I do horrible [inaudible 00:04:00] really horrible job at it, it feels awful. It feels like just drudgery but the times that it is fun and I feel like man this is like really me. This is me like on my path is when I'm like having fun and playing and getting immersed in the work. – So when you have your way, when you have what you love, what you have to do to succeed in these domain according to you? – Well there's no crystal clear answer to that. I mean basically you have to get really, really good at it and it has to be something that other people are willing to pay you to do on their behalf. Otherwise if you're not making money from it. It's just a hobby right. It's just something you care about but if it's something you make money from then it can actually be a career. So you have to just…and that's why I think it's important to find stuff that feels like play and is enjoyable and fun for you. Because you'll just naturally get better with it over time, it'll be easy for you to get good at it you know what I mean? – Yes. – Like it would be really torturous for me to get really good at coding for instance. Because it just feels horrible to me, it's not fun. Even though you're in the same position as video editing, it's kind of similar, it's done on a computer the creative process is not fun for me for coding. So I think you just have to be really good at it and it has to be something other people are willing to pay you money for, that's really all it boils down to I think. – Okay you have to focus on improving yourself every day, improving what you do everyday to add value to people that's right? – Yeah, it's honestly just a selfish acts of wanting to get really good at something that you care about and like if you really…I mean if I really, really wanted to pursue video editing I would throw everything into it and get crazy good at it. And then I would market myself as the person who's like the best video editor for…let's say I love shooting nature scenes. So I would be that guy who who when somebody's needs and nature scene shot I would be the go to person for that. There's a number of ways to get really at good stuff. You can obviously work for someone directly. You can offer to help a master at their craft for free in exchange for like an apprenticeship. You can obviously take online course stuff. But you have to get really good at something that's valuable to other people. – For example for you did do a normal jobs? – Yeah totally yeah definitely unless you have somebody funding you like your parents if they're willing, I mean you could do this stuff in high school and your parents could like fund you to do it but I did it after college. My parents helped a little but they weren't paying whatever…like I was having to do side jobs while I was getting good at certain skill sets. So yeah you need to pay the bills somehow and you can't do that immediately, it does take time. Every single artist, every single entrepreneur has had to make compromises in order to become like the kind of person they want to become. Like Jim Carrey. For instance, he every night…every I forget what it was I think it was like every Friday or Monday night or whatever for years he would go and drive two hours to this comedy club, and perform for free. And then he would drive two hours back and he did this for years. And never got paid never even got like parking validation, it cost him time and money to do it for years. And now he's Jim Carrey. He just kept doing it until people noticed. And I think that's basically…it's stuff that everybody knows like stuff that you know. Like you could be the David Laroche you want to be, but you have to show up and do it every day until people are like yeah that is David Laroche. That is him, that is what he does. That's his thing and that can be applied to everybody. It's just like show up every day and do what you want to do, until everybody else agree is that yeah that's you, that's what you do. – Yes and what did you do with your money? Did you invest in yourself in training in materials, camera, camcorder? – Yeah that's a great question actually. So what I did with my money I was relentlessly frugal. So I saved everything I was keeping track in a spreadsheet for months every single expense I had and every cent that I made for every dollar that I made. So I knew every single day there was a point where I was only spending an average of like \$13 to \$14 a day. That was about as low as I got that is hard to do by the way. I mean it sounds like spoiled like American whatever the rest of the world don't [inaudible00:10:40] \$2 but it's surprisingly difficult. So in terms of how I spend my money if you can cut back on alcohol good for you. That is going to save you a lot of money, and if you can cut down on going out and only make it like a once a week thing that you plan with your friends then even better. I relentlessly saved I had other friends who did the same. I had one friend who lived on a few friends couches. She had good friends and she would like cook for them and clean for them in exchange and do all the stuff. What did other friends of mine do? I had another friend who slept on a mattress on the floor. And I'd another friend who you bought like cheap food at a grocery store and got his meals down to like \$2.50 per meal. Yes the question was like did I spend my money on like better equipment like a camcorder or something. I invested in anything that would help me A, get better at the skills I cared about, and B, stuff that could help me make more money in the long run. So like for instance I had a really slow computer and I was very careful about spending, but I bought the best possible computer I could find like that and that cost a few thousand bucks but it was a worthwhile investment. – So you invested on everything that can help you to reach. – Right one thing I do want to clarify on that…so this is kind of important. So a lot of people think like if I want to become a professional photographer or professional videographer they feel they need to go out and buy the best equipment they can, or they're like I'm going to be an entrepreneur or like I'm going to be an inventor. So I I'm going to go spend all this money on a patent or I'm going to I'm going to go become a lawyer. So I'm going to go spend all this money on law school. The important thing there is like you should learn first on a very, very basic cheap or free level before you go and spend \$3000 on a camera, you need to spend two days with a friend's camera or renting a camera or even just making a basic slide show on your family's computer whatever to see if you like it. Or if you want to become a lawyer you go spend a day shadowing a lawyer in a law firm and see if you actually like it. Like why would you pay all this money before you…when you could figure out for free whether you actually like it. – Thank you for this answer. I have another question you…in a video of Ted you are dealing with a new way to work what do you mean? – When I say a new way to work, I just am referring to doing free work for people who are in a position that you want to be in someday. So you approach them with an offer to help them in their business and in exchange they teach you and help you move towards your goals of becoming basically more like them. So I did this with a number of authors because they were living lifestyles and running businesses that I admired and wanted to replicate. – And can you tell us the stories with Tim Ferriss. – Sure so I worked with Tim Ferriss for…like you said roughly three years I worked with him full time for about a year and a half. And I had approached his friend Ramit to do some free work for him. I offered to do some free video editing for him. And I also helped him market his book, and once I got through that successfully I worked with Ramit for I don't know several weeks for free. I had built up his trust and he knew that I was good at what I did, and then he [inaudible 00:15:46] and Tim had been approached with many offers I [inaudible 00:15:52] but because I [inaudible 00:15:54] though Ramit and vouched for I got through and became Tim's first full time employee. And I did a little bit of free work for Tim at the beginning just to make him feel better about committing to a something longer term work arrangement. And yeah that was that was pretty much how I got set up with that. – Okay so can we say if a young man or a young women have a dream in doing something can have a mentor and ask him to work for him freely to and to learn to learn wisdom. That's right? – Yeah there's a bit of an art to the pitch to making that proposal, because if you approach them in the wrong way they might think you're crazy. But if you word the pitch correctly and you can offer them something of value to their business and their life then they're very likely to take you on. I've had people email me and say I reached out to all the [inaudible 00:17:20] and offered to work for them for free and none of them reply. It's like that's the exact opposite of what I'm recommending. What I'm recommending is that you pick a single person who you genuinely admire, and want to learn from and can help in a specific way that's mutually beneficial for both of you. Because they'll be able to teach you what you want to learn passively and allow you to do the type of work that you really want to do right. You know how we were talking earlier about finding your passion and finding work that is fulfilling to you and feels like play. Once you've found that work you approach those people or that person that you want to work for, and you say hey my name is David Laroche, the reason I'm reaching out to you is because I feel like I could help solve whatever their problem is in their business right. Like a clear problem you've done your research on them you know all about their business. This isn't some random person this is someone you're intimately familiar with what their business is and what they're trying and trying to accomplish. And you say I've done this, this and this in the past. I have five years of experience of doing this or I helped another guy just like you accomplish these results and what I would like to do for you…what I'd like to offer is two weeks of free whatever your skill is or whatever you're offering. And totally free and if you don't like my work you can scrap it at the end, all I'd ask is for a little feedback up front so I can get going. And if you like my work at the end of the period, I would love to discuss something longer term. And usually I charge for this kind of work. But I'm a huge fan of what you do and I would love the chance to work with you and do some cool stuff together. What do you think? That's a hard offer to turn down. – Yes it's a great way to learn and to approach this kind of people and today do you do this things? I don't know? – Do I still do them? – Yes. – I'm working on my own projects right now. So I haven't done it in a long time because I kind of…I reached a point where it was like okay I'm kind of…this isn't to say like I'm as good as those guys but I felt like I knew enough and was skilled enough and had learned what I wanted to learn ultimately from them. And it was time to kind of strike out on my own and do my own thing. – And today do you have some people you admire and you don't have the contacts? – Like do I have people I admire that I would want to work for but I just can't get a hold of them? – Yes. – There's entrepreneurs and stuff that I admire I think they're cool, but I would be able to figure out a way to get in touch with them probably, almost everyone is able to get…you can get in touch with almost anybody. If you have some social adeptness and like know how to use the Internet you can probably get in touch with just about anybody. Especially if like these people speak at conferences and you can figure out who their friends are like there's ways to get…without getting stalkerish like. But no one comes to mind. I've always admired John I. V. who works for Apple. I think like he's really fascinating to me. Maybe like a few film directors. But no one really comes to mind, like standup comedians. I don't know I mean there's no one that I would want to work for free for at the moment. There's people I'd like to sit down and have a meal with… – My question is do you think the advice you gave it's only to start or you can you can do it again after? – Yeah totally for sure. It's a matter of my goals though, and it's a matter of your goals. It's like you can work for free sure but what are you trying to accomplish? What is that moving you towards? And I kind of…I stopped working for people when I realized this isn't what I want to do anymore because I already accomplished my goals you know? – Yes. – So it's a matter of like what's right at that moment. And if it's not right it's not right. I'll say this I know a woman in her I want to say late 30s early 40s I don't know her exact age. But she is extremely accomplished, she's a professional event planner or she was a professional event planner for HBO, Apple. She worked alongside Steve Jobs to launch the original iPhone. She offers to work for free every now and then to get an in with certain clients. Like that's her foot in the door figuratively speaking. I know another woman who did that and she runs a really successful web design firm. And her clients are like Disney, NASA, Intel, Apple, Coca-Cola like she has huge clients. And she got started by offering to do free work for a number of them and she's super successful. – Okay it's a great advice. Thank you very much. What did you do for Tim sorry Ramit. I don't know how to pronounce? – Ramit yeah. – Ramit, for them to help them promote their book? – So for Ramit was the first author I helped and I never intended to get into book marketing I just kind of fell into it. I helped him make his strategy for marketing “I Will Teach You To Be Rich” his book. And I helped him execute that strategy, and we ended up hitting number one on Amazon like we beat out Twilight which was fun. But only for a few hours of course. – You have a screen shots? – Yes and then after that…that was kind of like…do you want me to get into the details of everything I did or do you just want me to say like what I did for them? – The most important thing you did to… – To help their book? – Yes. – The most important thing we did to help with that book was we had Ramit do an eight hour webinar for his readers, eight hours was kind of crazy. – In live on Internet? – Live yeah and he just gave free financial advice and we also did an illegal…we found out it was illegal afterwards but we did a illegal giveaway. I'll stop saying illegal. We did a giveaway where if you bought a copy of his book and forwarded the receipts to us, then you were entered into a giveaway to get an Amazon Kindle or a \$1000 savings account from Mint.com. [inaudible 00:26:27] prizes were…he was giving away I think 10 Kindles and like five savings accounts with \$1000 basically. It was basically \$1000 check. And people bought a crazy amount of books because they wanted…A, he was engaging on the webinar and B, they wanted to win a prize. The second thing I did was I helped Tim market “The 4-Hour WorkWeek.” The second version of it. He called me up, because he had all this media stuff scheduled for the release and he said “All my media stuff got canceled. I don't have a backup plan. Can you help me figure something out in the next few hours? And I said sure and so I came up with another illegal way which I found after it was illegal to market his book. And that was we asked all his fans to post a picture of themselves holding the “The 4-Hour WorkWeek” up and take a picture of themselves, uploaded to Facebook and tag five of their friends in the photo and say do you want a free copy of the “The 4-Hour WorkWeek.” Because we had like 500 copies to give away. And so it was like to the first 100 people who do this you and your friends will get free copies of “The 4-Hour WorkWeek.” Now the way that works is during the time those photos which show up in people's newsfeeds and the way it works on Facebook. If you get tagged in a picture you have like a mini panic attack every time because you're like oh shit, what did this person put me…like what did this person post? So you pay extra close attention to what they're posting and that worked really well. We did a few other things but that in particular worked well. It got him to I think number four on the New York Times. Not that alone obviously, that by itself is not enough to get on the bestseller list. But that was like an effective thing we did and we also did a promotion that sold multiple copies. After that we worked on…the next book I worked on was “The 4-Hour Body” with Tim and we did a ton of stuff. I can't even go into all of it because there's so much stuff we did. I actually wrote a post called the 12 marketing lessons learned, no sorry the 12 lessons learned while marketing “The 4-Hour Body” that lays out everything we did in the promotion that was really effective. If you want to learn how to market books like that's a great article if I do say so myself. So that kind of lays out everything I did. And then with all the other authors, I've just kind of consulted them in just giving them advice but I haven't been like super active about actually promoting them. – It's awesome, two ideas and it's great. – Yeah thanks. – I have a last question to ask you what is a recession proof? – What is it? So my idea of recession proof is basically like the economy doesn't dictate what kind of life you can have. Well I mean the economy doesn't determine the quality of your life, like you are in control of it at all times, and you can do the kind of work that you want to do. You're not forced into soul sucking lame office jobs that you don't want to do, and you're not forced to compete with 35 year olds who are just clinging to their jobs. It's kind of crazy how everyone approaches their career, if you think about it when you get out of school what does everyone one do? They email out 100 copies of their CV, their resume to every local employer and they don't hear anything back. And as soon as one of them replies… – They take it. – And actually interviews them and offers them a paycheck they take it. That's the worst…it's about the worst possible strategy to building the life that you actually want. And that does not make you recession proof, because you're not building your skill set and you're handing over your well being to a person who can cut you out of their life, and cut your paycheck with two words. And that's the reality for a lot of people, but my idea to become recession proof is to be somebody who can sustain themselves eventually and create their own wealth by starting a business of some sort or working for a number of people or companies if you want to do consulting and financing for a number of people, and being able to create their own opportunities. So that no matter what shape the economies in they'll be fine. Let's say the United States [inaudible 00:32:49] and work is scarce here job is market super competitive everybody's getting laid off, I'll be fine. I'm not worried about that scenario. I'm worried about the people freaking out. But I'm not worried about my scenario, because I know I'm capable of creating money making opportunities and doing more of the work that I care about. And I know I can reach people in other markets or I can move to another country or you know. – If there was a way to succeed. – If you want to succeed and become recession proof, the thing you have to recognize is that it's up to you, you have to stop looking for people to take care of you, stop looking for people to basically give you a paycheck for just existing right. You have to understand that you're going to have to become a person of value that people want to pay. Because you bring so much value to their lives and to their business. You can increase their sales or you can cut their costs, or you can make them happier or you can remove stress. You have to figure out okay what skills do I have that I love developing, because it's fun, it's playful for me, and how can I sell myself and get people to want to pay a premium rate for me. What makes me unique from everybody else. And when you become that person which you can there's no other David Laroche in the world, and there's never going to be another Charlie Hoehn in the world. As soon as you become that unique person then you can be recession proof. – It's great. – Cool thanks. – So I have a last, last question about what you were saying, what could be the advice is to be a loser. Okay look so if you want to be a loser be afraid of taking a risk and failing. Don't ever start anything. Don't ever build momentum… – I think that's… – Go along with what everyone else is doing and will likely be a loser. And if you're not a loser, you'll be unhappy. – Okay, it's good. It's a first, do you have other advice to be an excellent loser? – To be an excellent loser, I would say… I don't know go stick a needle in your arm everyday, I don't know. Actually I mean if you want to be an excellent loser like always wait for the future… for a better tomorrow. – For the next opportunity. – Yeah always be saying tomorrow, tomorrow I'll do that because there's no such thing as tomorrow. So for you to say I'll do it tomorrow is you saying I'm never going to do it because tomorrow never comes. There's only now. So I know too many people who put off what they want to do in life because of tomorrow. – Thank you very much for this lesson. I think they are the most important. We have to remember your last advice. – I hope it helps. – So how can people can follow you and your work? – I don't post a ton of stuff online but the bests…I post occasionally on my blog and the stuff I post there I really like. So I only post stuff there that's going to be cool I promise. So it's Charlie Hoehn.com that C-H-A-R-L-I-E H-O-E-H-N.dot com. I'm also on Twitter @charliehoehn. And I have a newsletter that you can find through my blog, but right now those are the two main places. That may change. I might do something in the future like podcast or whatever but we'll see. – So thank you very much. – Yeah man, no problem, thanks for having me. ♪ [music] ♪

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